Best CLEAN skin optimized to be lightweight and fast?

[Tigratrus]

We're almost *always* going to tweak/mod a skin anyway, so we're looking for something of a barebones, FAST skin that's got well written CSS.

The default IPB skin is ... well... a mess. The CSS is written in different styles, duplicated, just... messy.

Having a really tough time determining what skins are a best bet as a starting point, and would appreciate any insight you can provide!

Thanks...

James

[Ehren]

Hi James,

All IPB skins are based off the default IPB skin, so they're all bound to have similar css. All of my skins are coded to perform as best as they can and I would assume most skins have around the same loading time since the code is so similar. If you minify the css, it'll remove any unnecessary spaces and comments, making it as small as possible in file size.

If you're planning on modifying the skin anyway, I'd just choose whatever one stands out to you initially. Some skins include features such as pop up login boxes, avatars for post icons, etc - so that may be a deciding factor if you want them in your skin.

[Tigratrus]

Hi James,

All IPB skins are based off the default IPB skin, so they're all bound to have similar css. All of my skins are coded to perform as best as they can and I would assume most skins have around the same loading time since the code is so similar. If you minify the css, it'll remove any unnecessary spaces and comments, making it as small as possible in file size.

If you're planning on modifying the skin anyway, I'd just choose whatever one stands out to you initially. Some skins include features such as pop up login boxes, avatars for post icons, etc - so that may be a deciding factor if you want them in your skin.

First off, thanks for the response!

Regarding the answer though...

:: baffled ::

Obviously you've got VASTLY more experience in this arena than my partner and I , we're used to vB, Joomla!, Wordpress etc. This is the first time we've worked with IPB for one of our sites...

But Jeez! There are so MANY inconsistencies and lack off efficiency issues in the default skin! I mean (just to focus on one area) the top of the sidebar doesn't line up with the pane content pane (along with a lot of other things that *almost* line up), and the sidebar widths vary from app to app! It was something like 22% in the gallery and 32% in content and 30% in the forums!? Who does that?

And it seems like none of the skins use a sprite to hold all the images in a single file? Seems like the page size and # of requests could be significantly reduced, but it seems like there's not much of a concern among the IPS admin community about optimizing for speed and SEO?

:: shaking head ::

Not trying to criticize! Just having trouble wrapping my head around the status quo in IPS powered sites.

Well... Here's to hoping the 3.2 revamp makes it a LOT easier to design a lean, lightweight skin! Faster pages make a MUCH better first impression, and google likes them better to boot.

[Ehren]

From the screenshots so far, the 3.2 design is a vast improvement over the current default skin. There are many visual inconsistencies with the current template, and the code isn't overly perfect - but it works.

Sprites aren't used in my premade skins mainly for the fact that some customers modify their skins after installing them, and I want to make it as easy as possible to edit. It's obviously possible for sprites to be used if required, but I guess IPS just didn't decide to take that route.

[Tigratrus]

From the screenshots so far, the 3.2 design is a vast improvement over the current default skin. There are many visual inconsistencies with the current template, and the code isn't overly perfect - but it works.

Sprites aren't used in my premade skins mainly for the fact that some customers modify their skins after installing them, and I want to make it as easy as possible to edit. It's obviously possible for sprites to be used if required, but I guess IPS just didn't decide to take that route.

::agreed::

We've got high hopes for 3.2.

I think it's pretty clear that IPS has been pushing REALLY hard to grow the platform as fast as possible, and the downside of that has been a lot of inconsistency and a VERY fast design change churn that has been very hard on skin (our total sympathy!) and mod devs.

We've very encouraged by the evident focus on standardization, CSS modularization and overall cleanup. It's not that the CSS is BAD... Just that it's duplicated, uses fundamentally different styles (in the way that the classes/properties are formatted within the css files themselves, I'm sure you know what we mean ) etc.

Once the 3.2 updates come out I'd REALLY like to see a super fast and SEO optimized skin, either by IPS or a 3rd party skin dev. Something that eliminates every single image that isn't required and focuses on FAST semantic html. There's a lot of sites out there that make their money off their traffic, and *anything* that improves the SERPs with Google is *well* worth the cost. Seems like most IPS powered sites are all about the bells and whistles, when most members really don't give a DAMN about that. Most members on sites with a high paying niche care about speed and logical layout. They care about content, wizz-bang cool factor is a distant second.

Gaming sites? They love the glitz, but they are also not generally a high paying niche for advertising IMO/E.

Let individual admins ADD things via CSS if they feel they are necessary, but it would be sooooo much better to start with a fully optimized starting point and add to it, than to have to go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb trying to strip out all the bloat, and fix all the inconsistencies.

What we'd LOVE to see is something like the wordpress theme sandbox http://www.plaintxt.org/resources/readmes/sandbox-readme.html built for IPS. Pure, semantic HTML with clean, highly logical CSS. It's AMAZING how much better something like that ranks with Google.

i know that (personally) we'd be willing to pay a lot more for a skin that actually INCREASED our income by improving our SERPS. Seems like there's a total lack of existing skins that fill that bill...

Here's hoping 3.2 empowers us all!

James

[jayfella]

Its gonna be a long day for Ehran if he has to sprite the skin as well. One of the most important things in SEO is to have a fast site. Personally I''m not expecting the coding to be as perfect as I would want it. I see that as my job once it's done. Things can always be improved, and even if they are perfect in your eyes, they may not be in mine, so you can't please everybody. Ease of manipulation as Ehran pointed out is of more popularity than a minified, yslow'ed, sprited, hard to edit theme.

To answer your question, though, and get back on topic, I don't think there is one available. I had the same issue when i wanted to code my own from a PSD. I came to the same conclusion that one simply does not exist, and instead decided to get Ehran to make the skin i would love, and then sprite, minify, etc afterwards.

[Graeme]

I just thought I would add some of my input here. A few months ago I was asked by someone to create a very minimal skin with almost no images, and I can assure you, it's feasible. The images that we used were generally all set up as sprites (for a number of reasons).

However, you hit the nail on the head regarding the CSS of the default skin. I'm hoping that in 3.2 they take a step back and try to go through the CSS bit by bit and restructure it. I did read that they were focusing on cleaning it up, so let's hope they do.

I am tempted to request on the IPS forum that they allow a few skinners to look at the default CSS before they release it to the general public. It would be nice to be able to comment on the default skin code before it is finalised.

Having said that, if the demand for completely barebones skin is there, I can certainly help achieve that. It's really not that difficult, just depends how minimal you want the structure to be!